9.87 Clearing the air - Draft minutes of a meeting between SECTCo and CCG

From 9-10am on 24.3.15 at the Clermont room of the Brighthelm Centre, Brighton. 26.3.15
Written by John Kapp, of SECTCo. See papers on section 9 of

[What is shown in squared parenthesis was not actually said for lack of time, but was implied by the tone and manner, or is what would have been said had time allowed.]

Present for the Social Enterprise Complementary Therapy Company (SECTCo) John Kapp, (company secretary), Anthony Coyne, (deputy chairman), John Hadman (homelessness officer)
For the Brighton and Hove Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) and Health and Wellbeing Board (HWB) Dr Tom Scanlon, director of public health, Dr Geraldine Hoban, operational director, George Mack, lay member of the CCG Board.

Purpose of the meeting
John thanked everyone for coming and said that he had prepared and circulated a draft agenda, which said that the purpose of the meeting is to consider the case made by John to the Ombudsman on 13.3.15 that the CCG/HWB is non compliant with the new access standards coming into effect on 1.4.15. However, the CCG/HWB did not accept this agenda, and George took the chair, which SECTCo representatives accepted. George said that the purpose of the meeting is to draw SECTCo’s attention to the following serious issues of clinical governance, as follows:

1 Undeclared conflict of interest
George said that John has a strong conflict of interest through his involvement in SECTCo as a potential provider of services...

2 Over-estimating the numbers requiring talking therapy
Geraldine said that John over-estimates the numbers of depressed patients requiring contract provision for talking therapy...

3 NICE guidelines
Geraldine said that John mis-interprets NICE Guidelines. John quoted his correspondence with Val Moore of NICE ...

4 Opening up the market
Geraldine said that John misinterprets the words: ‘opening up the market’ ...

5 John habitually wastes the time of the CCG/HWB officers
Geraldine said that John habitually wastes the time of CCG/HWB officers by vexatiously and repeatedly asking the same question...

6 John is not clinically qualified as a MBCT provider (to NHS patients)
Tom said that he would not recommend the CCG to contract with SECTCo to provide MBCT courses for patients on GP referral because of the following correspondence...

7 Open discussion

[8 Engagement after the meeting
All present attended the CCG Board meeting from 10-1pm, and the HWB from 330-530pm the same day, We believe that SECTCo could help the CCG/HWB with the following issues...

9 Withdrawal of the referral to the Ombudsman
John believes that the persons present (and all members of the CCG/HWB) have acted in good faith, but are acting habitually (on autopilot) rather than thinking what they are doing and saying. Assuming that the CCG/HWB accept that they have not been mindful enough in the past, and agree to all the above 6 actions in a stated time, which shall be reasonably soon, he agrees to withdraw his referral to the Ombudsman.

All to consider and report back.]

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